HP+ 30 or Armor +5 always? - Guild Wars Forums

englitdaudelin · May 07, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04

So, I've been running around GW for a bit more than a year, and have tried to observe this, with less success than I would hope. (I think all the numbers flashing get distracting...)

So, for the observant or for the mathematically inclined, here's my question:

Is a +30 health mod "better" (i.e., will it keep you alive in battle longer?) than a +5 armor (or even +7 physical or +7 elemental)? Does the damage reduction over time of the armor mitigate the marginally lower health?
Or, is +30 a significant-enough step up (about 7 percent of your total health pool) to warrant the mod?

And, does it matter more what class / role you play? Is one mod more useful for warriors and dervishes, and the other more useful for rangers and casters? Is it situational?

Feel free to share anecdotes and observations and math.

Diddy bow · May 07, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12

im a pve'er myself and I prefer +30, in pve you need weaponry to be "jack of all trades" (hence +15^50 20/20 +30's are so popular) unlike +5 a +30 will ALWAYS help you whereas +5 excludes degen and armor ignoring. But i have a felling the +5 armor is more effective for that purpose.

well theres a pve perspecive anyway

Series · May 07, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14

Diddy bow sums it up nicely. While +5 armor will give you more protection, you will be weaker against things such as degen.

Evilsod · May 07, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Its not a question of mathematics...

An armour mod will work from the moment you get hit (aslong as its not armour ignoring/degen). A health mod will work when you get closer to 0 health. Absolutely nothing stopping you using a high AL set and switching to a high Health set when you're taking heavy damage. Sadly since all greens are +30 and i can't be arsed to make myself loads of +5AL weapons... i'm stuck with it.

Edit: Ok not all... but most, most of the ones with desirable mods are +30.

SotiCoto · May 07, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30

Not all greens are +30.
Granted... most of them are, but there are a few with armour mods.

I use health mods if there are health mods already there.... and as for Armour mods... I always go with +7 Elemental (and get rid of +7 Physicals on sight) because my Acolute Sousuke set-up always (or at least 95% of the time) carries Greater Conflagration... so there is no physical damage anyway...
It just makes sense...

StormLord · May 07, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Which one is more useful also depends on your health and armor level.
- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better.

Dione Davore · May 07, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41

I always have a weapon with +30 and one with +5A.

It's usefull in various situations and some are allready in posts above mine so I'll save myself some time. :P

Fender · May 07, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46

+5 AL in PvE
+30 hp in PvP

Master Ketsu · May 07, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53

helath mods work the same way as deep wound, slashed from the bottom. The extra health is only their when you reach near death. In other words the best way to go is to have +5 armor on most of the time and then when your health approches <20% switch to +30.

Stormlord Alex · May 08, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Overall for PvE, you'll rarely be running into *massive* degen, armour ignoring damage or coordinated spikes. Here, the (age-old argument, here it comes!) a few hp saved from every hit given the +AL will more than likely add up to more than 30hp, making a Defense mod more desireable overall, especially on a front/midline class who would be more likely to take a few blows.
The only time I ever really tried for a high health PvE-wise was as a monk, big scary monsters seem more prone to feasting on a 446hp ele than a 600hp monk, leaving me free to go about preventing said ele from being eaten free from harassment.

For PvP, having high as health as possible is key. More durability to degen, damage of all sorts and, most importantly, spikes can be crucial - I've lost count of the times I've survived a perfectly executed 'sin combo from the +hp extra my equipment gave me.

However, as PvE overall is easy enough to not need *optimal* equipment, I mainly go for +hp mods anyway, and have my chars primed for PvP.

Gregslot · May 08, 2007, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by StormLord

Which one is more useful also depends on your health and armor level.
- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better.

You are correct my dear friend.

Thats why i always try to give +armor to my casters.

But sometimes i like use +5 armor with my warrior if i really want to tank.
But that its just me beeing weird hahahaa

Bryant Again · May 08, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49

I find that degen is killing me more than anything in PvE right now, so HP +30 helps out a lot.

Both mods work nicely. If you're undecided, I would apply the +5 armor on whatever item you have for the time being. They're much easier to replace than a +30, in case you change your mind.

AlienFromBeyond · May 08, 2007, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

+5 AL in PvE
+30 hp in PvP

This is what I do, especially since I play a Warrior.

eightyfour-onesevenfive · May 08, 2007, 06:38 AM // 06:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex

big scary monsters seem more prone to feasting on a 446hp ele than a 600hp monk, leaving me free to go about preventing said ele from being eaten free from harassment.

That's exactly the point that I've been advocating for quite some time now. If you do not want to get attacked (in PvE), go for a high health. High health moves you down on the attack priority of the AI. That is why you should be careful with +health mods on a warrior. Normally, you do want to get attacked as a warrior, because you want to take the hits, rather than those squishy spellcasters. That is the main reason why I prefer +armor mods on a warrior and +health mods on spellcasters. Also, high-end +health mods for warrior weapons tend to be rather expensive and hard to come by, compared to +5 armor upgrades.

Coloneh · May 08, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15

+5 is quite a bit better for normal pve.

arbiter · May 09, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25

i think it depends on the character and gametype

pvp monk needs +health pvp warrior probably doesnt really need either
for pve ive always perfered 30 health, a lot of times you get spiked hard in the harder pve missions and more health is probably better than the tiny bit of extra armor

Lurid · May 09, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57

I like both, each in different situations. Generally speaking I don't use either on my Monk, because TBH I find a +20% Enchant to be more useful in most of my builds. However i've been known to use any of the three (+30, +5, +20%) on my Monk, just depends on the situation.

deadmonkey4u · May 09, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01

Heres the general rule applied to PvP and works fine for PvE as well (note if you know ahead of time what your up against it may be different like if you play against a armor ignoring spike health is obviously superior)

Their are certain breakpoints for armor and health.
The effectiveness of Armor Scales down as you increase it.

In other words you need a balance of both.

What StormLord said is basically correct
"- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more.
- If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better."

So it is both situational as well as class/role dependent.

If you have trouble deciding in PvP: generally your fine if you have 75 or so AL and around 600hp on your high hp set (including the shield)

In PvE this may be a bit different this is what will keep you up the best but not necessarily the best option. You may simply want to go heavier armor or something on a warrior so the AI has a higher priority to attack you.

If you want numbers
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1156.php

madman24749 · May 09, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05

mmm there was some big guide someone made that covered a bunch of formulas and stuff and came up with the conclusion that +5 was a bit better, it was on the gameamp site but unfortunately I cant find it
I still use +30 though

Feels better

deadmonkey4u · May 09, 2007, 06:12 AM // 06:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by madman24749

mmm there was some big guide someone made that covered a bunch of formulas and stuff and came up with the conclusion that +5 was a bit better

Its not correct

. Its situational. You can do formulas and stuff based on you have this much life and this much armor and +5 will probably be better for most players, but in reality in PvP having like 90AL and like 455 hp or something is going to make you far easier to kill then someone with a better balance.

Like I said their is a balance. As you up your armor the less useful it is. For the majority of the players who have casters without 16AL shields and wear like +energy armor and stuff the conclusion that +5 armor is better is pretty valid.

May 07, 2007, 11:04 PM // 23:04	#1
englitdaudelin Krytan Explorer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: East Coast Guild: Soldier's Union [SU] Profession: N/Me	HP+ 30 or Armor +5 always? So, I've been running around GW for a bit more than a year, and have tried to observe this, with less success than I would hope. (I think all the numbers flashing get distracting...) So, for the observant or for the mathematically inclined, here's my question: Is a +30 health mod "better" (i.e., will it keep you alive in battle longer?) than a +5 armor (or even +7 physical or +7 elemental)? Does the damage reduction over time of the armor mitigate the marginally lower health? Or, is +30 a significant-enough step up (about 7 percent of your total health pool) to warrant the mod? And, does it matter more what class / role you play? Is one mod more useful for warriors and dervishes, and the other more useful for rangers and casters? Is it situational? Feel free to share anecdotes and observations and math.

May 07, 2007, 11:20 PM // 23:20	#4
Evilsod Banned Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: England Guild: Lievs Death Squad [LDS]	Its not a question of mathematics... An armour mod will work from the moment you get hit (aslong as its not armour ignoring/degen). A health mod will work when you get closer to 0 health. Absolutely nothing stopping you using a high AL set and switching to a high Health set when you're taking heavy damage. Sadly since all greens are +30 and i can't be arsed to make myself loads of +5AL weapons... i'm stuck with it. Edit: Ok not all... but most, most of the ones with desirable mods are +30. Last edited by Evilsod; May 08, 2007 at 12:11 AM // 00:11..

May 09, 2007, 06:01 AM // 06:01	#18
deadmonkey4u Jungle Guide Join Date: Nov 2005 Guild: Hoser Down[HD]	Heres the general rule applied to PvP and works fine for PvE as well (note if you know ahead of time what your up against it may be different like if you play against a armor ignoring spike health is obviously superior) Their are certain breakpoints for armor and health. The effectiveness of Armor Scales down as you increase it. In other words you need a balance of both. What StormLord said is basically correct "- If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more. - If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better." So it is both situational as well as class/role dependent. If you have trouble deciding in PvP: generally your fine if you have 75 or so AL and around 600hp on your high hp set (including the shield) In PvE this may be a bit different this is what will keep you up the best but not necessarily the best option. You may simply want to go heavier armor or something on a warrior so the AI has a higher priority to attack you. If you want numbers http://www.guildwarsguru.com/content...ide-id1156.php Last edited by deadmonkey4u; May 09, 2007 at 06:05 AM // 06:05..

May 07, 2007, 11:12 PM // 23:12	#2
Diddy bow Furnace Stoker Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Jawsome!!!!!!!!!!! Guild: looking for one :p Profession: A/D	im a pve'er myself and I prefer +30, in pve you need weaponry to be "jack of all trades" (hence +15^50 20/20 +30's are so popular) unlike +5 a +30 will ALWAYS help you whereas +5 excludes degen and armor ignoring. But i have a felling the +5 armor is more effective for that purpose. well theres a pve perspecive anyway

May 07, 2007, 11:14 PM // 23:14	#3
Series Banned Join Date: Aug 2006	Diddy bow sums it up nicely. While +5 armor will give you more protection, you will be weaker against things such as degen.

May 07, 2007, 11:30 PM // 23:30	#5
SotiCoto Banned Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Drazach Thicket Guild: Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]	Not all greens are +30. Granted... most of them are, but there are a few with armour mods. I use health mods if there are health mods already there.... and as for Armour mods... I always go with +7 Elemental (and get rid of +7 Physicals on sight) because my Acolute Sousuke set-up always (or at least 95% of the time) carries Greater Conflagration... so there is no physical damage anyway... It just makes sense...

May 07, 2007, 11:33 PM // 23:33	#6
StormLord Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Apr 2006 Guild: League Of Friends [LOF]	Which one is more useful also depends on your health and armor level. - If you have good health but low armor (for example, a caster or dervish with no major/superior runes), +5 armor will help you more. - If you have low health but good armor (for example, a warrior with a superior rune), +30 health is better.

May 07, 2007, 11:41 PM // 23:41	#7
Dione Davore Frost Gate Guardian Join Date: Dec 2006 Profession: R/E	I always have a weapon with +30 and one with +5A. It's usefull in various situations and some are allready in posts above mine so I'll save myself some time. :P

May 07, 2007, 11:46 PM // 23:46	#8
Fender Krytan Explorer Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Ohio Guild: XoO	+5 AL in PvE +30 hp in PvP

May 07, 2007, 11:53 PM // 23:53	#9
Master Ketsu Desert Nomad Join Date: May 2006 Location: middle of nowhere Guild: Krazy Guild With Krazy People [KrZy] Profession: R/	helath mods work the same way as deep wound, slashed from the bottom. The extra health is only their when you reach near death. In other words the best way to go is to have +5 armor on most of the time and then when your health approches <20% switch to +30.

May 08, 2007, 12:04 AM // 00:04	#10
Stormlord Alex Grotto Attendant Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Beyond the Forest of Doom, past the Cavern of Agony... on Kitten & Puppy Island Guild: Soul of Melandru [sOm] Profession: W/E	Overall for PvE, you'll rarely be running into massive degen, armour ignoring damage or coordinated spikes. Here, the (age-old argument, here it comes!) a few hp saved from every hit given the +AL will more than likely add up to more than 30hp, making a Defense mod more desireable overall, especially on a front/midline class who would be more likely to take a few blows. The only time I ever really tried for a high health PvE-wise was as a monk, big scary monsters seem more prone to feasting on a 446hp ele than a 600hp monk, leaving me free to go about preventing said ele from being eaten free from harassment. For PvP, having high as health as possible is key. More durability to degen, damage of all sorts and, most importantly, spikes can be crucial - I've lost count of the times I've survived a perfectly executed 'sin combo from the +hp extra my equipment gave me. However, as PvE overall is easy enough to not need optimal equipment, I mainly go for +hp mods anyway, and have my chars primed for PvP.

May 08, 2007, 01:49 AM // 01:49	#12
Bryant Again Hall Hero Join Date: Feb 2006	I find that degen is killing me more than anything in PvE right now, so HP +30 helps out a lot. Both mods work nicely. If you're undecided, I would apply the +5 armor on whatever item you have for the time being. They're much easier to replace than a +30, in case you change your mind.

May 08, 2007, 09:15 PM // 21:15	#15
Coloneh Furnace Stoker Join Date: Nov 2006 Profession: D/W	+5 is quite a bit better for normal pve.

May 09, 2007, 02:25 AM // 02:25	#16
arbiter Desert Nomad Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: that dwarven house in beacons perch Guild: koss Profession: W/	i think it depends on the character and gametype pvp monk needs +health pvp warrior probably doesnt really need either for pve ive always perfered 30 health, a lot of times you get spiked hard in the harder pve missions and more health is probably better than the tiny bit of extra armor

May 09, 2007, 04:57 AM // 04:57	#17
Lurid Jungle Guide Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: Mo/	I like both, each in different situations. Generally speaking I don't use either on my Monk, because TBH I find a +20% Enchant to be more useful in most of my builds. However i've been known to use any of the three (+30, +5, +20%) on my Monk, just depends on the situation.

May 09, 2007, 06:05 AM // 06:05	#19
madman24749 Academy Page Join Date: Jul 2006 Guild: Ceasers X I Legion Profession: W/Mo	mmm there was some big guide someone made that covered a bunch of formulas and stuff and came up with the conclusion that +5 was a bit better, it was on the gameamp site but unfortunately I cant find it I still use +30 though Feels better